"Jesus Established A Denomination"

Posted by Norm Fields at 7/14/2008 5:16 PM and is filed under Denominationalism

 

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  • 7/18/2008 2:46 PM John wrote:
    Hey Norm:

    I find the term "church of God"-- Acts 20:28, 1 Cor 1:2, 1 Cor 10:32, 1 Cor 11:22, 1 Cor 15:9, 2 Cor 1:1, Gal 1:13, 1 Tim 3:5 -- 8 times in scripture (NT) and the term "church of Christ"...... zero times. Can you give me your scriptural support for the title "Church of Christ" being the only acceptable name for a church... that is what you think. If it is not, then why the concern over what a building is called or what its congregants call themselves, as long as they obey the word of God to the saving of their souls and live a life according to His word?

    Interestingly, from what I've found, the "denomination" called the "church of God in Christ" seems to be the most scripturally precise of all the ones I can recall off the top of my head.

    John
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    1. 7/19/2008 12:27 AM Vaughn Hopson wrote:
      John --

      You are correct that the Bible does identify the church as the "church of God", as in Acts 20:28. Please notice in that verse that it continues, "which He hath purchased with His own blood". Is this a reference to the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit. We know this references Christ, the Son, for Jesus Christ is God (Heb. 1:8).

      The Bible also informs that the body is the church, according to Eph. 1:22-23 and Col 1:18. So, when we read "body of Christ" as we do in 1 Cor. 12:27, we know this is the church of Christ. The apostle Paul, speaking of congregations of the one body (Eph. 4:4) in various locations, identifies these as "churches of Christ" (Romans 16:16). Thus, a singular is: church of Christ.

      Any questions?

      Vaughn
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      1. 7/19/2008 7:15 AM Norm Fields wrote:
        Excellent response Vaughn!

        I also want to point out John's comment "Can you give me your scriptural support for the title "Church of Christ" being the only acceptable name for a church... that is what you think."

        John, if you think that I believe the term "church of Christ" is the ONLY scriptural designation for the church then you have not been paying attention to what I have been saying. I have said on the program many times that any scriptural designation may be rightly used for the church, as I often do in my preaching. However, for the sake of identity to one another and those outside, we have chosen the scriptural designation of "church of Christ" to identify our meeting places. 

        We all know, John, that in the first century there was only one body of people claiming to be Christians. There were no denominations claiming to be "part of" the body of Christ. Therefore, there was no confusion over who was and who was not the true people of God. Today, though, due to denominational corruption there is great confusion in the religious world when it comes to identifying true New Testament Christianity. So, while all of the scriptural designations refer to the same people, we must present a unifying designation to the world so they know who we are. If we put a sign out front of our building that said, "The church of God meets here," while it would be an accurate scriptural designation, it would cause confusion because people would come expecting to find an assembly of the Church of God denomination. Whereas, when we see a sign that says "the church of Christ meets here," we understand that, if things are as they should be, the people meeting in that place are New Testament Christians and, therefore, the church of God, the church of Christ, the church of the firstborn, the church, saints, brethren, disciples, etc., because all of those designation refer to the same body of people, the one body of Christ (Eph. 4:4-6; 1:22, 23), the church of Christ (Matt. 16:18; Rom. 16:16).

        I pray for a time when we can simply use the most common scriptural designation of just "the church" (62 times), and everyone will know who that is -- those who belong to Christ because they have heard the word of God (Rom. 10:17), believed what teaches about Christ and His Kingdom (Jn. 8:24), repented of their sins (Acts 17:30), confessed that they believe Jesus is the Son of God (Rom. 10:10; Acts 8:37), and been baptized into Christ to have their sins washed away (Acts 22:16). When everyone knows that the church of God, the church of Christ, the body of Christ, etc., all refer to the same people - New Testament Christians!

        John, this discussion is one of the main reasons I hate denominationalism so much. It is the single greatest cause of division and confusion. The sooner it is destroyed the better off all people will be.

        Reply to this
    2. 7/25/2008 10:52 AM Mac wrote:
      John:
      The Church is Christ,we are his body.

      Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
      23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
      Acts 20:28,1Tim.3:15,heb.12:23,rev.2:1
      are all referring to the Church that Jesus said he would build, Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
      Reply to this
  • 7/19/2008 5:10 PM John wrote:
    Hi Vaughn and Norm:

    Thanks for clearing that up. I agree that Vaughn's post is a good one and satisfied my concern, although I don't agree with his reference to a 2nd person of the trinity. Of course, that is what the position paper I sent is about. :)

    Two comments to Norm:

    You said, "...you have not been paying attention to what I have been saying."

    I feel your pain! haha! I've been meaning to reply to your reply to my writing about obedience to the Gospel. In it and in your radio program you said I used a passage out of John (6:63) to try to support the truth about Holy Spirit baptism. Negative. I used that to prove the the Spirit of God is what brings life to a person, not water baptism.

    Also, above you said, "denominationalism...It is the single greatest cause of division and confusion. The sooner it is destroyed the better off all people will be."

    First off, I don't see denominations being destroyed until the Lord steps back on earth and sets up His Kingdom. Secondly, the single greatest cause of division and confusion has been the doctrine of the trinity. Not only that, but worse, it is likely going to be the 2nd greatest reason people go to hell...behind disobedience.

    Anyway, thanks for your responses. I have no problem with you calling your group the "church of Christ". I don't agree, but then I don't have to. :)

    John
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    1. 7/25/2008 11:12 AM Mac wrote:
      John:
      What verse are you referring to when you say "until the Lord steps back on earth and sets up his kingdom"
      Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
      19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. John: did Jesus establish his Church but give Peter the keys to something different?

      Also this verse says we will meet him in the air 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Also is Jesus going to deliver up the church or the kingdom? or could it be they are the same.
      Reply to this
      1. 8/16/2008 8:54 AM John wrote:
        Hi Mac:

        Sorry for the long response time. :)

        You asked: "What verse are you referring to when you say 'until the Lord steps back on earth and sets up his kingdom'"?

        Zechariah 14
        1 Behold, the day of the LORD is coming...
        2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; the city shall be taken...
        3 Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as He fights in the day of battle.
        4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives...


        You also asked: "John: did Jesus establish his Church but give Peter the keys to something different?"

        No, He did not.


        You said: "Also this verse says we will meet him in the air 1Th 4:17"

        I agree, but I don't see that we STAY in the air with Him.


        You asked: "Also is Jesus going to deliver up the church or the kingdom? or could it be they are the same."

        He, the Son, delivers up the Kingdom to the Father. 1 Corinthians 15:24-28.

        Hope that answers your questions.
        John
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    2. 7/26/2008 5:20 PM Vaughn Hopson wrote:
      Hello all!

      I've enjoyed reading the correspondence.

      Keeping with the discussion, I would like to call attention to Lydia in Acts 16. In verse 15, Lydia said to Paul and those with him, "...If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there..." Why did she refer to her house as "my house"? The simple answer: For it was hers.

      Continuing in this chapter, in verse 40 the biblical language refers to her house as the house of Lydia. It reads, "And they went out of the prison, and entered into the house of Lydia..."

      What is meant by "the house of Lydia"? Is this a formal name for her house? No. It simply means the house which belongs to Lydia, the house of Lydia.

      Similarly, the Lord said in Mt. 16:18, I will build "My church". Why did He say "My church"? The simple answer: For it is His.

      He built it (Mt. 16:18), He died for it (Acts 20:28), He is head over it (Col 1:18), He adds the saved to it (Acts 2:47) and He is the Savior of it (Eph. 5:23). Therefore, it is His as He said "My church".

      Just as the house of Lydia references Lydia's house; the church/body (terms synonymous) of Christ/God (terms synonymous) references Christ's church. The church of Christ is the church which belongs to Christ.

      The Bible declares there is only one body/church (Eph. 4:4). We must speak as the oracles of God (1 Peter 4:11), abide in the doctrine of Christ (2 John 1:9) and have God's authority in whatsoever we do in word or in deed (Col 3:17).

      This is why we identify ourselves as churches of Christ (Romans 16:16), for it is biblical in origin. Similarly, we wear the name Christian (Acts 11:26, 26:28; 1 Peter 4:16) for it is divine in origin and honors Christ: Christian.

      There is no need for denominational names and doctrines which are both unknown and contrary to the inspired word of God. These are divisions (1 Cor. 1:10) which are condemned by God and make worship to God vain (Mt. 15:9).

      If you believe "one body" (Eph. 4:4) means "many bodies = one body", why wouldn't you take the 6 other "ones" in Eph. 4:4-6 to allow for "many baptisms = one baptism", "many Lords = one Lord", "many faiths = one faith", etc.?

      Some find it acceptable to divide the body/church into numerous bodies but would refrain from applying that same priniciple to the other "ones". Why is that?

      If there were no divisions in the world today, there would be no need to identify the Lord's church as the church of Christ. It would simply be known as the church to all Christians with no further need to distinguish itself from the world.

      The apostle Paul taught the same thing everywhere He went (could he do this today?). 1 Cor. 4:17 reads, "For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church."

      This same apostle penned "one body" (Eph. 4:4).

      Vaughn
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